IN CONVERSATION WITH ANTHONY COUSINS, JOHN KARSKO, CHELSEY GRANT & NATE TYMOSHUK

Released in 2022, Anthony Cousins FROGMAN gathered an immediate cult following with its found footage tale of Dallas (Nate Tymoshuk), a young man haunted by the sighting of the titular, elusive cryptid he caught on camera in his youth. Receiving its UK Premiere at this year's Tubi FrightFest, the sequel FROGMAN RETURNS is being shown alongside its predecessor. With the miracle of online conference video calling, Gore In The Store gathered together director Anthony Cousins, co-writer John Karsko and actors Nate Tymoshuk and Chelsey Grant, who plays the film's troubled heroine Amy, to discuss the stylistic differences and choices between the two films, the group's creative bond, found footage and Lovecraft influences and the future plans for the Frogman saga.

GORE IN THE STORE - I saw FROGMAN a couple of years ago, and I really enjoyed it. So, I was kind of chomping at the bit to see what happens next and I really enjoyed RETURNS. So, I was just wondering, did any of you have an interest in cryptids before this?

AC - Maybe a little above the average person's interest in cryptids, but definitely not as much as I know about cryptids now. Now I feel like I'm something of a scholar on cryptids. But that's fine. They're cool. They're weird. I like learning about new ones. What about you, John?

JK - Well, we found out about Frogman at the same time, we were together when we found out about his existence. We had actually never heard of Frogman until 2017 when we were shooting something and we had this map of all the cryptids in the United States on it, and one of them was Frogman, and we're like, what the Hell is Frogman? And now here we are, almost 10 years later, and we've made two Frogman movies, and Frogman's a thing now. Not that it wasn't before, but more people know now.

And would I be right in thinking that there's a real Lovecraft influence in your iteration of Frogman and all that surrounds him in the first film?

AC - Yeah, that was a big thing on the first one for sure. The Shadow Over Innsmouth is one of my favorite stories and I am constantly trying to figure out ways to emulate that story. So we kind of worked that in with the cult. I guess there's cosmic horror influences that are like strung through the sequel, but we've kind of lost a little bit of the Lovecraftian element in FROGMAN RETURNS and leaned more into sci-fi action.

JK - Yeah, for sure, we definitely veered more into the action, sci-fi side of things in the second one, but I think if some of the things we're talking about for the future come off, I think the Lovecraftian angle will come back in some of the future projects that we have.

That was actually something I was going to ask you later on about, what you had planned next. So would that be the next chapter of FROGMAN, or something completely different?

AC - We're kind of dividing and conquering right now when it comes to writing. I'm shooting something later this year called THE KENTUCKY GOBLINS, which is set in the Frogman world about a completely different cryptid, and it's kind of a standalone movie, but will eventually tie in. And then John and I are working on the outline for what FROGMAN 3 would be, and John's writing a FROGMAN prequel at the moment that would focus more on the cult element. So I think that's the movie where the Lovecraftian stuff would come back the most as far as what we've got planned right now.

And how did you become involved, Chelsea? Were you wondering what this was and what you got yourself into when you first heard the name?

CG - Yeah, I was game because I had worked with both John and Anthony before, and they're the ones that introduced me to horror like head on. I was mostly a dramatic actor, especially on camera, and so I had met Anthony on a PSA video that was really intense, and yeah, I jumped straight into…

(Nathan’s name pops up on all of our Zoom screens)

CG - Hello? Nate? Now he's just making us wait with bated breath! Maybe he's afraid to jump in. Nate, if you hear us, can you come into the room?

AC - This is like a seance!

(Nathan’s face pops up on all of our Zoom screens.)

Hi, Nathan. Thanks very much for coming.

NATHAN TYMOSHUK - Thanks for having me! And all of us!

I was just actually asking Chelsea about how she became involved with FROGMAN, and what you were wondering you'd gotten yourself into when you first heard about the project?

NT - Oh, I knew what I was getting into because I've been friends with Anthony and John for a long time! I met them in film school, when we were all starting out, and I kind of became their actor, and it feels like I went through the film program with them, but I didn't get any school credit.

CG - I don't have the privilege of going through the college acting and film program with the boys that Nate got to join in on, but Anthony brought me in because we'd met on a more dramatic set. He asked me in the craft services line if I liked horror movies, and I was mortified because I had only ever seen one horror movie in my whole life at that point in my early 20’s. And he said, "Well, we want someone that doesn't think they're in a horror movie.” And then after we got a few movies under the  belt, it was like a week before you guys wanted to start shooting FROGMAN and you were like, "Well, what about this one?” And I jumped in! I don't know if I've admitted this, but while we were shooting the first day of FROGMAN, I didn't actually know it was a thing. I thought it was just something you boys had concocted, which wouldn't be surprising to me. But then I had noticed that you guys were referring to things, and because there wasn't a lot of buildup, it was like we just finished a project, and a week later we were in FROGMAN, so I didn't do as much prep as I normally do. And then you guys were talking about it, and I felt so out of the loop. And then I looked it up, and I was embarrassed, because it's actually a thing that's been around since the 50’s. So once I was in, I was fully in. It took me a little bit longer to get in, but the boys, they all got me in there pretty quick.

AC - I totally forgot that we shot SCARE PACKAGE II, which also played at FrightFest a few years ago. We shot that back to back with FROGMAN, basically. I think we shot the first FROGMAN less than a month after we wrapped our SCARE PACKAGE II segment.

JK - I think it was 10 days.

CG - Yeah, it was fast! You guys mentioned it on set, and I was like, "Let me just focus on one project. But this sounds really cool.”, And then by the last second of shooting, you both were like, "Well, we're shooting FROGMAN, so do you want to be in it?” And I did want to. 

I wanted to ask you, Anthony, about the stylistic differences in the two films. You rely on an old camcorder for the aesthetic of the first film. Is that a comment on Dallas's kind of obsession and nostalgia for a simpler time? Then in the second film you use different formats. Is this about the characters moving forward?

AC - For sure. I think one of the things that's really important to me when it comes to found footage is what type of camera we're looking through, what the POV is, and why we're filming. The first movie for Dallas is really personal to him. It's a very nostalgic journey that he's going on, and that's how we justify the Hi8 tape. And when it comes to the story of FROGMAN RETURNS, there was no way to justify that again. And it's kind of rare that with the found footage sequel, you even have any characters left over to bring back into a sequel. Usually, the footage is found because everyone's dead. So, to have Dallas back was kind of fun and to figure out why would the cameras be shooting again? What kind of cameras this time, and getting to switch the dynamics of the characters. Whereas Dallas is the one that's pushing everything forward in the first movie, and everyone else isn't taking it seriously, here he is still the main character; he's still in front of the camera the whole time, but he's now reluctant to being filmed. So now he has a different relationship with even the camera and the movie that's being made.

Did you have to do any of the filming yourself, Nate, in either film?

NT - I think there was some iPhone action in the first one for sure. Not the second one. We had the great Kyle Moe as our DP for RETURNS. But I think in the first one, I was running through the woods, holding an iPhone, filming some stuff. I think, is that right, Anthony?

AC - I think there in the last 15 minutes or so, it's you behind the camera. I think there were a couple times that maybe you were operating the Hi8 yourself.

NT - Oh yeah. When I make my declaration to the world that I'm gonna get irrefutable proof of the Frogman.

Do you think older formats like Hi8 are more unsettling and lend more atmosphere to found footage films?

AC - Absolutely. I think there's something to  watching a movie in that format. That even if you know you're watching a movie and that you know none of it's real, I think it still kind of does something to your brain where you accept it a little bit more as real, and I think that's why we enjoy watching these kind of movies so much and why they are way more effective. I think when you're watching it through a more analog medium, like a Hi8 camera…

NT - There's an authenticity to it.

I was wondering, Chelsea and Nate, how do you bring the relationship, especially in the second film, from the page to the screen? Was there any improv involved in the more grounded conversations that you have in this film?

NT - I was mostly anticipating getting slapped in the face. She was looking forward to that.

CG - No!

NT - She was like, do you want me to? And I'm like, I want you to hit me for real. 

CG - And then we practiced.

NT - You were very sweet about it.

CG - Well, we practised it with the stunt coordinator as well, and we fully practiced all of it. And I recall you saying just do it, Chels, and I was like okay, but we had practiced it fake, and then we actually shot the scene. I think everything shut off, and I just did it. I remember after we called, I held your face, and I was mortified because I had technically gotten permission, but we hadn't touched base about it on that day. I was mortified, and then we shot a few more takes. I think two more after or something. But I think we got and kept the first one. But when it comes to rapport and relationships, I mean, it's just a blast! I love working with Nate. I love working with Benny Barrett. I loved all the new talent. There's just a closeness that's really hard to describe what happens, especially when you're doing a movie in the woods in the wee hours. You get a little loopy. You get serious. There's a lot of trust there, and there's something that's so special about getting to continue a character's story, especially in found footage, like Anthony mentioned, because normally you don't get to make it there. So it was kind of daunting, but totally thrilling to come back. It was really wonderfully weird.

We talked earlier about the Lovecraft influences, and I was wondering if there are any separate influences for the second film? And even as yourselves as actors?

NT - Spielberg’s a big influence.

AC - Yeah, huge influence, whether we meant for it or not.

JK - EVIL DEAD 2 was definitely huge when we were writing it. That was a big touchstone. BOOK OF SHADOWS: BLAIR WITCH 2, we have a soft spot for, you know the way that that movie is totally different from the original. A lot of sequels. There's a little LOST WORLD in there.

AC - Didn’t we see BOOK OF SHADOWS for the first time together?

JK - During COVID, yeah.

AC - Yeah, during COVID, when it was like real still strict lockdown. All of us and a few other friends were isolated for a while, and we hadn't been out of the house, so we rented a cabin. And there was a TV in the cabin that we decided to take outside onto the porch, and we watched THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT, and I don't think any of us had seen BOOK OF SHADOWS. And we all watched it, and we were like, "Why is everyone ragging on this movie? This movie is incredible!” We had the best night watching it for the first time.

How does it feel to be bringing both films to FrightFest this time around?

CG - It's so cool. Anthony and I did FrightFest a handful of years ago, like we said for SCARE PACKAGE II. But to get into FrightFest in general is a big deal, and then to be able to have two spots, so if people want to take the full journey from the original to the sequel, they can, and that's just very special. That's unexpected and exciting.

AC - It’s really exciting to play FrightFest. I love that festival, and I've heard from FROGMAN fans in the UK, so I know it's gotten its reach there a little bit, but we really haven't screened there theatrically before, so it'll be cool if there's some people seeing it for the first time and getting to watch both movies back to back. That'll be fun. And then Nate and Chelsea and Benny are coming, which is really cool that we'll all get to hang out together there.

One final question. Without going into spoilers, how long do you think the FROGMAN saga will continue for?

JK - For as long as you let us!

AC - Yeah, the rest of our lives, maybe. I think we have roughly seven more movies planned as of now, but then we keep coming up with more ideas, so it could be a lot longer.

CG - Can’t escape it!

Iain MacLeod

FROGMAN RETURNS - UK PREMIERE

DISCOVERY SCREEN 4, SUNDAY 30TH AUGUST